Great discussion yesterday/last night via the blog on the first two episodes of Kirby Ferguson's Everything is a Remix. Now watch the third episode, embedded below, and then offer two takeaways/connections to Kleon's book. Then offer two pieces of feedback to the takeaways/reactions from your peers. Awesome job. You guys amaze me every single day.
Episode three: The Elements of Creativity
I think that the quote from Henry Ford was crucial because it shows that everything is a remix. If Henry Ford, a man we all look at as responsible for factory work and industrialization, as well as the first sensible car, never thought that his work was original, how can we look at our own work, or anyone else's and think that it's something new?
ReplyDeleteI also think that it can be frustrating and encouraging that we will never create something new. How irritating is it to think that no matter how much you search, draw out from your imagination or innovation, or discover by a happy accident, that you will never make something no one else has ever thought of? At the same time, how much more stable does it feel, knowing that there are a bunch of people who've had your same idea and contributed work into what you want to better understand or change in the world? It's bittersweet, but I think, in the long run, it's good that we can't make anything new. We can only make things better.
Naomi, I think that you have asked a great question on the fact of how can we look at our own work as original. I think that no matter if we try or not to copy someone, it is just going to happen. I think this because we are influenced by the things we love, and naturally we are going to do things that resemble those things that have inspired us in the past.
DeleteI think that an idea can still be original despite the creator having built upon a preexisting idea/topic. Look at any scientific research. Humans started out by asking basic questions, they built off of each other's discoveries and end up answering questions they never even thought of asking. Would you call Copernicus' idea that the solar system revolved around the sun unoriginal? He was influenced by the preexisting theory of an Earth centered solar system, but the question he asked was one no one had ever thought of asking?
DeleteI like your comment on not being able to create something new. I feel the same way knowing now that however hard I try to create something new and unique, that idea has already been thought of. But I agree it is reassuring knowing that you're not alone in something. It's good knowing someone else is thinking like you and trying to discover the same things!
DeleteNaomi and Sara,
DeleteI feel the exact same way about creating something new. It is very frustrating! I was recently thinking of something, anything, that could be considered new. Everything I thought of was some kind of spin-off or mixture of products. It is truly fascinating!
Yes, I agree that in a modern age we need to learn, observe, and copy others to emulate our own creativity. However, this video, I feel, claims that everyone was this way. I can break this rule with using the example of Beethoven. Beethoven was a composer in the classical period and he wrote many outstanding symphonies such as Beethoven's Fifth. Beethoven was nothing less than an innovator. I would argue that he made an entirely different genre of classical music, and he did not use anyone's work as a guideline. Yes Beethoven had teachers and many classmates, but his work produced originality. Haydn, another famous composer, was Beethoven's teacher, and he even said himself that nobody was doing what he was doing with his music. Haydn believed that Beethoven would fail in his career, but he was very wrong. So not all great people have copied one person or another.
ReplyDeleteI do agree on Apple though. Apple did use many signature features from the first computer that Xerox produced. This strongly suggests that there was a focal point between the first computer and apple's computer, the Macintosh. Apple was a creation purely based on pre-existing observation. Without Xerox, I believe that Apple would not be where it is now today.
I agree with you on the fact that Apple would probably not be where it's at if it wasn't for Xerox. I think that Xerox doesn't get all of the credit that they deserve for coming up with an item, like the computer, based off of only passed observation. Instead of copying bits and pieces from other items like Apple did.
DeleteAs someone who also disagrees with the 'nothing is original' statement, I really like your example of Beethoven. I know he had a lot of influences, but I don't see how that makes his work less original or ground breaking.
DeleteWith Beethoven, he was the first and major influence to bring change to world of music. Before Beethoven, Bach, Correlli, Vivaldi, Handel, all these composers only made pieces that pertained to background music for parties, churches, gathering events. Beethoven brought about the concert we listens today. He actually made people come and attend a concert solely based on listening to music. Doing anything like this before his time was crazy. So, it wasn't only the music that changed, but the whole way we interpret music.
DeleteI agree that this video is saying that everyone completely copied others, but Beethoven did copy a little. He started by copying.If he didn't copy at first, he would've never learned how to play. I get where you are coming from that he didn't steal works and change it a little, but I don't agree that he didn't copy. People learn by imitation. He had to learn by playing already composed pieces.
DeleteI see both your points Dakota and Alyce and Beethoven was influenced, yes... but he was not influenced through other forms of music from past composers. He was actually influenced by was the French Revolution. He based some of his most symphonic works from the leadership and guidance of Napoleon Bonaparte. Another song, Fur Elise (a piece we all know and love) was influenced on a women he love. There was no way to copy someone's previous work to show just much he loved women. He took something that didn't relate anything to music and, therefore, made it into music. Another example would be Mozart, a child prodigy. He was four years old when he composed his first piece, and he had no prior understanding of any form of music. This shows that he was born a genius. However, when Mozart began to travel and explore the world he met Bach. He had a major influence on his music. All in all, there was copying, but some music from both composers were ground-breaking and original works.
DeleteSee, I didn't know that about Mozart! I think that proves that most things are remixes, but there are still original things out there! It makes me wonder if people tried to frame young Mozart for 'copying' another composer when really it was his original work.
DeleteI am very shocked to find out that the first apple computer was a copy of another computer. To be honest, I had never heard of Xerox before this video. I have always been a little frustrated with how phone companies and computer companies seem to always be copying apple; in a way. But now I realize that Apple was the first to copy someone else's work so that frustration is completely gone. I have watched commercials about apple and have thought that their product is really cool and creative but I now realize that they could be just copying from another company that I have never heard of. Which seems to take away a lot of that creativeness and really makes me wonder.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the same thing that happened with Xerox and apple is going to happen with the first company that builds a car that doesn't run off gasoline or diesel fuel. I feel like someone will come up with a way for the cars to work and someone else will copy bits and pieces to make a better version of the same car. Then the original company won't be as known for its accomplishment just like how Xerox isn't as known because of apple.
Totally agree with your first paragraph! I'm in the same boat. Apple was such a new and ground breaking company to me and to just find out that a lot of their products were taken from other companies or people it makes me wonder who else has had this happen. Although I still think of Apple as original, for who else would have thought to invent a touch screen phone that you could talk to? I'm sure there was someone but they didn't make it happen, Apple did, and that's what makes them stand out.
DeleteI share your prediction of the car. I feel like there will be someone who creates a car that doesn't run on fuel, but it will be costly. Another company will use that version and tweak it to make it easier to use and a little cheaper. They will be known, whereas the "original" creator(s) will not.
DeleteCole, I have to agree that it is a little disheartening to hear that the person who laid all the ground work doesn't get any of the recognition. But lets put yourself if their shoes; if someone comes up with a really cool invention, and you think of a way to make that invention even better, are you going to stop in mid-success, and be like "hold up, I can't take any of this money or fame or success, because I didn't have the initial idea"? Heck no! Like the book says, you can take ideas from other people and mold them to better suit you!
DeleteI have an interesting piece of information about Apple products and their origins. None of them were first created by Apple. The video talked about Xerox having a computer before Apple and many other computers that were invented even before that. The first laptop was the IBM 5100 (about 15 years before the Macintosh Portable). The first multimedia player was the IXI (20 years before the iPod). The first smartphone was the IBM Simon (over 15 years before the iPhone). The first electronic tablet was the Microsoft Tablet PC (10 years before the iPad). In 1985, a company called Seiko created multiple versions of a "wrist computer" (almost 30 years before the Apple Watch). I believe this covers all of Apple's current products.
DeleteI'm right there with you that I had never heard of Xerox before. Macintosh obviously did something correctly though and Xerox did something wrong because one of those companies is now a multi billion dollar company. When you talk about Apple being the first company to start stealing, they are also probably the most successful company at creatively stealing things. Their Iphones and iPads have been stole from other companies that have already created something that was a lot like what apple made, they just found ways to make it better and sold it for millions of dollars in profit.
DeleteI definitely agree that most if not all of Apple's ideas have been stolen from other companies/inventors. On one side it makes me sad that the true inventor didn't receive credit for the idea, but on the other, how do we know that they didn't steal it from someone else? My current state of mind is that it shouldn't really matter where the idea originated, but that it actually does get out in the world so that the idea can be used to help people. If Apple hadn't stolen the ideas and made them successful, we probably wouldn't have any of the cool gadgets that we have today.
DeleteI really like how he talks about the process of innovation. First, ideas are created by influences (I wouldn't necessarily call it copying in all cases). Then, they are transformed, and given the creator's own little twist. Finally, they are combined to create a new and unique product.
ReplyDeleteIf there was one company that embodied the spirit of Steal Like An Artist and remixing it would be Apple. Like the video said, it took all of the current ideas floating around, 'copied' them, added their own twist, and created their own operating system. And like Richard said, because of there copying tactics there probe;y wouldn't be any Apple without Xerox.
Alyce,
DeleteI agree that with out Xerox there would be no apple today. But becuase of what the video says how there is historically more thatn one person creating the same thing at relatively the same time. So if there was no Xerox there would be no Apple. But I think there would be something very similar to Apple.
Alyce, I love your point about adding the creator's own personal twist. Each one of us in our life is going to find someone that we want to replicate, and we're going to end up taking their ideas and applying it to our own lives, adding our own twist.
DeleteI like how he says flat out says “No one starts out as original, we need copying and understanding, and after that things can get interesting.”
ReplyDeleteThis is so true, I believe, because whenever we have a class project to do by ourselves, we ask each other what they’re going to do. Once we hear their ideas and plans, if we like any of them, we steal them for our own. Then we tweak them, make them our own and wha-la, out comes something new, creative and ours.
Let’s look at our linchpin boards for example. I don’t want to sound mean but I’m sure no ones was completely original. We all used different aspects or pieces of something we saw or heard about before. Then used those ideas to come up with our final products. Now maybe someone did completely think of their final product from their imagination, but I’m sure someone else has done it somewhere else. So even when we think we are original, we’re still not.
I’ve never even heard about Xerox before this video. Having heard of them now and their first take on the computer, the Lisa, the MacIntosh resembles a lot of key similarities. So why have we not heard so much of Xerox? I think it’s because what Apple did was take their idea on the computer and tweak it and make it even better. Once they got the hang of it and saw what people liked and wanted in a computer they got even better. So good that people didn’t want to pay $17,000 for a Lisa (which is ridiculous) and Xerox slowly began losing business and Apple took over.
It is funny, I feel the same way you do Sara. Who has heard of the Xerox computer? I have heard the name brand Xerox, but the computer must have died out right when apple hit the market. It is sad to think that old inventions are continuously being replaced by new products. Sometimes you never know what you could have missed out on. Just like the great old cartoon shows, the new generation will never know what cartoon network, disney, and nickelodeon shows used to be aired.
DeleteI hate to be the odd man out, but I've heard of the Xerox computer before, but yes, both you and Richard are right when you said that Apple made the same product, but only better, which was why it was so much more successful. Apple was actually selling their computer, inevitably pushing Xerox out of business, which is kind of sad.
DeleteElle, I agree that Xerox probably should have gotten more credit for inventing the computer. However, the success of a product does not only come from the efficiency of it's design ( and yes, Apple's was better), but from the efficiency and success of the company. And obviously, Apple is also a more efficient company than Xerox. If the computer had stayed an invention only sold by Xerox, than it probably wouldn't be as accepted as an everyday tool as it is today.
DeleteOne thing that comes to my mind when people say nothing is original, is the cure for cancer. When the day comes that a cure for cancer is found will that cure be original? Or is it copied? I know the cure would be based off of decades of research, and copying / taking bits away from other finding. Will it be considered a copy like the Macintosh? Or will we be able to say it is Original? Kleon quotes a section of the Bible that states, "'There is nothing new under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 1:9)"' If this is true then nothing ever invented can be new or original. Or can something be original and at the same time not be new?
ReplyDeleteI agree with this video that if one if someone didn't invent something that has been invented, I think our world would be the same it is today. Because it is inevitable that all of the creations will be created, when it is their time to be created and the resources present themselves.
I wholeheartedly agree with your part, Riley, about how the world would still be the same. Even if said thing didn't come along, the original is still able to work itself to become better since there is no such thing as perfection. Later on it could be copied.
DeleteI also like how you question whether or not the cure for cancer will be copied. It is very possible (and likely) that they have all the things right now that are able to cure cancer and that it is just the final few connections that are missing. Are we just waiting for the people to find the right connections, and are these connections actually copies? Who knows, but that is an excellent question of whether or not something is copied.
I agree 100% that when the cure for cancer hopefully does come out, it will no tbe original at all. It would be impossible to find a cure for such a terrible disease without any prior studies. And that quote you found in the bible, I couldn't agree more with.
DeleteWhile reading Steal Like an Artist, I had a reoccurring question: why, if everything is copied, are we taught not to copy? Why are we not, instead, teaching children to reinvent? I believe that this is the first way children's creativities are drained. Trying to come up with something completely original is impossible, so it demotivates kids from trying to create.
ReplyDeleteThe more I hear about Apple, the more and more I realize that they copied almost everything. They are a prime example of those who copy, tweak, and combine. That's what innovation is, it is a copy of past ideas brought together and changed to create something new. Apple does this constantly, they even copy their own products.
I love that you pointed out that Apple is truly a copy-cat! I was just recently thinking about how everything Apple has created, from the iPod shuffle to the iPhone 6+, it was all based on someone else's invention!
DeleteI disagree with your top paragraph. We aren't taught not to copy in schools as children. The entire experience for young minds is to copy the teacher for spelling words, copy the teacher for math problems, copy the teacher for arts and crafts, copy manners, copy language, copy history, etc. We even copy the teacher for how to hold a pencil in our hands! All those dreaded notes you took: just copies of what the teacher said about a subject. We don't learn not to "plagiarize" until high school. Even then, we "legal steal" from others in the form of citations and side projects.
DeleteOne of the things that really hit me is what he said initially: Creativity isn't magic. I throughly believe that this is something that should be said more. Growing up, I always believed that I was not creative, didn't have that "creative gene". Finally hearing someone say it was very powerful.
ReplyDeleteI also enjoyed the fact that he states that we all must copy something in order to transform that into something new, or creative.
Hannah, I can totally relate to what you wrote about being creative. "...we all must copy something in order to transform that into something new, or creative." This is especially relatable to me as a young kid. As a kid, It was weird for boys to play with barbies (an interest of mine.) I would hate being called names, but loved barbies. In an effort to stop the name calling, I mixed a typical "boy thing" with my interest. As a result of this combination, I created a car racing game with my barbies. Pretty soon, everybody was ripping off my game!
DeleteI am a firm believer that to be able to find your own voice, you need to copy others to see if it fits, and once you find one, make it your own. Like with Xerox and Apple, Xerox came out first and Apple shortly there after, and one obviously had more success than the other. Some may believe that Xerox set the ground work for Apple and influenced it, which is probably partly true. "Steal Like an Artist" tells us that it's okay to copy and steal to figure out what works best for you, and then alter it to fit you best.
ReplyDeleteContradictory to what I just said, I also like the idea of multiple discovery that this Remix video introduced. If Xerox hadn't come out with their computers first, would we have Apple? The idea is that we would, because this video claims that people tend to discover things at about the same time, so Apple mustn't have been too far along. Something that kind of goes along with the book's idea that nothing is new, and no matter what you come up with, you're being influenced by someone else work.
Elle, I like what you said about being influenced by someone else's work. Without influence, I sometimes find myself lost when it comes to being creative. Writing, for example, can be incredibly frustrating when you can't seem to put your thoughts into words. To solve this problem, I look for writing that is based around a similar idea, analyze how the author portrayed their thoughts, and use some of their ideas to help me get my point across.
DeleteCreativity is a process that starts with us copying. We must first find our influences to develop our own "original" art. Without these influences we would be lost in a "factory world." By factory world, I mean a world where we are all the same and where creativity is unknown. We have all been influenced by certain people/things. Our influences shape who we are and make us into our own "original" person, despite the fact that we are really just remixes and mashups of our influencers. Although I consider myself a die hard Apple fan, I know that Apple didn't create the computer, smartphone, or even smartwatch. Others did it first, Apple copied, modified, and improved on the existing technology. Apple is known for being slow to adopt certain things (the iPhone didn't get 4G until September of 2012, after all.) By being "slower" Apple can wait and see what works and what doesn't work on other smartphones. When something works, Apple finds a way to reinvent it and make it better. I think we can all take a few notes from Apple.
ReplyDeleteIt's crazy to imagine a world without Apple. Without Apple most of us would likely be stuck with some craptastic android phone in our pocket! Although Steve Jobs didn't bring anything "new" to the table, he changed the lives of millions of people. Jobs made the personal computer more easily accessible to those who couldn't afford an expensive computer, he put iPads in the hands of doctors and surgeons, hell, he put a computer into mine and countless other LHS students' hands. We don't need many more inventors to get by. Instead, we need innovators to take previous ideas, improve upon them, and change the world.
By waiting, this is where Apple is smart. The company knows when to go and when to not go. Sometimes their updates aren't the greatest. They still have to toy around with their consumers in order to find out what changes are liked and disliked. I also agree with you that this company has done some amazing things with the iPads, especially some of the newer things added. The 3-D models in one of their presentations left me befuddled.
DeleteEven by watching the video, there are so many shots taken that a ton of films have! There are such things as "famous" or "well-liked" shots just because they are pleasing in moving along whatever it is they are doing. I really noticed this at the beginning with a classic over the shoulder shot of someone writing/typing with the shadow. UGH. FILMING. (And copying.)
ReplyDeleteTo continue on a lighter note, I love that he starts the first few minutes discussing the combination of ideas. We are often given the ingredients for things to do. Whether or not we do them is the question. Some of us will go out of our way to get other ingredients so that maybe instead of baking cookies, some people will be making cookie bars, or cookie pizzas. The ingredients are there for everyone, but what and how would people be using them? Maybe someone is making bread somehow by "saving their thefts for later."
I have to laugh at Apple. Perhaps it is because I am more of a PC person myself, but combining two other brands to make their own. Isn't it ridiculous how the world has to get by? However, copying is not always a bad thing. Sometimes just by copying, you are bringing something "new" to the world simply because you had better publicity, or you brought it back in a time when it was needed.
I wish throughout his films he had tread on a few more topics than simply copying and remixing, but it worked to get his points across.
I'm glad you noticed the copied shots from the beginning as well!! With the shot where it's a time lapse on the growing plants, I'm almost positive that it's the same exact footage from one of my favorite documentary series- Plant Earth. How frustrating!!
DeleteI loved your line, "The ingredients are there for everyone." It makes me think of when someone shares a problem solving idea for a class activity and people pipe up and say "Oh, I should have thought of that." or "How did I not think of that?". The fact that people can have everything they need in front of them to make something great and most come up with something that's slightly different from everyone else's idea- or that outlier who comes up with something completely their own using the same ingredients.
I do agree with the video that many things are produced off of the ideas from previous 'genius' works. Though the fact that Swan Song and the Stand were both written and published around the same time, with very, very similar plots, but both of the authors had no clue that the other was writing almost an identical book seems very contradicting. I think that people are able to come up with their very own original ideas- meaning that, to that person, it was an unique idea. When that idea was compared to other people and their work, it's likely that it would seem like a ripoff even if it wasn't to begin with. That's what makes me frustrated. Things can be written off as a remix or a ripoff even though it wasn't intended to be in the first place. Especially the fact if someone beat you to it and you had no clue about it- something that Kleon experienced himself with the black out poetry- really sucks.
ReplyDeleteThis video talks some about a concept that Kleon talks about in "Steal Like an Artist." This concept is that people first learn by imitating their heroes, then they develop their own styles based on what they learned from copying. I agree with this. Babies first learn to walk by imitating their parents and siblings. Later they start walking their own way because their adult parents are structured much differently that they are. This process continues through everything else.
ReplyDeleteThis video also implies nothing is original and that everything comes from something someone else did before. This is something I couldn't disagree with more! Yes tons of people rip off ideas, emulate others, and create by combining things that have existed for years, decades, or even centuries, but there ARE things that come from pure original thought. The best examples I can give come from the world of scientific theory. The idea that everything was made up of particles so small you can't see them (atoms) couldn't have come from anywhere but original thought. Everyone believed everything was made of combinations of fire, earth, air, and water at the time, so the idea of atoms was laughed at! Nicolaus Copernicus came up with the first model of the solar system with the Sun at the center instead of the Earth. He was a Bishop, and the Catholic church believed the Earth was the center for religious reasons. Because of this, he would have had no reason to come up with a new solar model. He also knew nobody would like his idea of the Earth not being the center, so he didn't tell a single person! That means he would have had no inspiration from anyone! It had to have been pure original thought!
Like I have already stated in previous blog posts, in our day and age, so much has already been done and created. It is so difficult to create something nowadays that is 100% pure, uncut originality. The video states that all great ideas come from other great ideas, but you just need to add a little bit of tinkering. Once you start that tinkering, that is when things start to become really interesting. In my sports career, I have done multiple things in an effort to become better. I don't have any ground breaking new strategies that people should be using, but I take what other athletes have done, usually form athletes who are far more talented than me, and maybe alter something they do to better fit my needs. I don't come up with something that is totally new and original, but I take something that has already worked really well for somebody else, and just tweeked it a bit, like the video says. With all of these videos we have been watching, I cannot stress enough that it so hard to be original nowadays. Everything truly is a remix, because basically anything you can think of has already been done. I know I am getting very repetitive here, but I just feel so strongly about it being so difficult to be original in our day and age.
ReplyDeleteKade, I like how you point out that our copying is just taking a previous idea and tweaking it to our own needs. We obviously can't perform those original ideas exactly like the original people, so we change them just enough so that we can use it in our own personal way. We takes a creative idea, copy it, and turn it into a personalized creative idea.
DeleteI also find the same thing true for swimming. I am constantly watching videos of other professional swimmers and adding what works for me into my swims. These aren't new or ground breaking things but they are different things I take and combine to make myself better.
DeleteOne of my favorite lines from the video was "That is one of the explosive examples of combinations." There's so many combinations of things in the world. A lot of them have been combined already, but there is always room for more combining, and it can all be original ideas too, just using the same ideas or concepts of two already made creations.
ReplyDeleteIt was odd seeing that the assembly line wasn't created by Ford. I remember learning that! Apparently, I was given false information.
Also, in the beginning of the video he talks about needing to immerse yourself in what you're going to create before you create it. Piano players have to practice and perform famous symphonies before they can go off and start writing their own scores. You copy off of previous works because that's what you know, that's what you're comfortable with, and then you expand off of it.
I agree with you Sam! Everyone starts somewhere and takes bits and pieces along the way to create something "new" and "creative". Also I agree with what you said about how teachers teach us things like who the assembly line was created by when in fact it wasn't created by him at all.
DeleteIf copying has made all of todays greatest inventions why do they teach us in school that copying is bad? We wouldn't have our 1:1 program if copying was bad and we also wouldn't be able to find any information at the click of a button. I also think it's interesting how they teach us in school who invented what when in reality what they are teaching us is wrong. Many of us are not totally unique we are shaped by emulating or copying others and then adding something new to the mix. With 108 billion people that have lived on earth at some point I actually don't think it is possible to create something totally original anymore. However I do believe that every idea has to have come from somewhere and it would be very interesting to learn about where things came from originally and who actually invented what.
ReplyDeleteWhat caught my attention was the idea of "Multiple Discovery", because it got me thinking about how important it is for human development and discoveries. He talked about how multiple scientists came up with essentially the same ideas at around the same time. This seems fairly impossible to me, without them influencing each other's research in one way or another. Even though it was probably considered fierce competition back when all of the research and experiments took place, I think that competition was what made the inventions so successful in the time frame that it was invented. The competition pushed the inventors so hard, because of their desire to be the one to invent it. Because they worked so hard, a successful invention was guaranteed to be invented. Without the competition, it probably would have taken much longer for progress to be made, and humanity wouldn't have developed at the rate that it has.
ReplyDelete